Google Reader Redux #
The new version of Reader has been out there long enough (and is now stable enough) that I have some time to catch my breath and make this post (my post-launch post last year came only a couple of days after the big announcement). I've jotted down some of my thoughts from the past few weeks, continuity will not be high.
There were some hints that something big was coming. Chris's Twitter updates were sounding rather intense. Someone in the discussion group inferred from my lack of posts that a major update was imminent (or that I stopped caring - never!). We even invited some bloggers for a sneak peek at the new Reader* but they were nice and respected their embargo.
Reader is in Google Labs, and that puts it in the "throw it against the wall and see what sticks" product family. I'm glad that people seem to have realized that this "throwing" and "seeing" are less passive than they sound. To stretch this metaphor further, if the spaghetti starts to slide off, engineers (and UI designers, and product managers, and others) will study the problem and figure out how to increase its coefficient of friction. Usually the changes are more subtle (witness the myriad of tweaks that have been done to the Google Video homepage) which is perhaps why there is this perception that no post-launch changes are made.
A lot of people have remarked on the similarities between the new Reader interface and Gmail's. With this in mind, I've created a simple Greasemonkey script that adds a "Feeds" in Gmail. When clicked, Reader's list view is loaded on the right. To install the script (and Greasemonkey if you have never used it before):
- Install Greasemonkey from http://greasemonkey.mozdev.org/
- Restart Firefox.
- Click on the script link above
- Click on the "Install" button that's displayed in the upper-right corner of the page.
- Visit/reload Gmail
You may wonder why I felt the need to write a Greasemonkey script for my own product. The answer is that integrations are hard and generally require a lot of effort before you can even determine if they are worthwhile. Greasemonkey lets you experiment with UI concepts with minimal effort necessary from either team (I had to make exactly one change to Reader to better support this script, and that was the ability to force list view to be used, even if expanded view is normally selected). I can't really say what, if any, our integration plans are, but enough users have asked for something like this that I thought writing the script was the most expedient way to provide this (unofficial) feature.
I am still subscribed to the "google reader" Blog Search feed, so that is one way to reach the team with feedback. The discussion group is also being monitored, though with the increased volume we now find it hard to respond to a lot of posts. But please keep the feedback coming, it's been great to get direct, concrete indicators for what we should work on next.
* It is rather frustrating to have to call it "the new Reader" or more formally "the new version of Google Reader." It's unfortunate that version numbers are passé, "2.0.1" is a more accurate and concise representation where of where Reader is right now.
114 Comments
Can you make 'v' open the item you're viewing in the gmail integration? I'll poke around the script myself, but I'm better you can do it faster.
Thanks. Very much.
Using "v" helps a lot with keyboard only navigation, but if you want to go through and "v" a lot of posts, you have to use the mouse (or Ctrl+Shift+Tab) to get back to your GReader tab, which defeats the purpose of keyboard navigation.
http://persistent.info/archives/2005/10/09/google-reader#comment-105
http://persistent.info/archives/2005/10/09/google-reader#comment-122
(it's also good to finally see an "smart" Google Accounts home page, which I commented on last year, but is not really directly related to your group).
Anyway, from v1 last year, I didn't even give it a 2nd glance and happily (or unhappily, actually) stuck with Bloglines. A couple months ago I got fedup with Bloglines interface and went to Newsgator. I was generally happy with the NG interface, but it was too slllooowwww, so I almost went back to BL, right when GRv2.0 came out, and I've happily been using it since.
That being said, i'll throw out some more suggestions here.
First, for your GM script (i know it's almost unfair to be too critical of a personal GM script that't not actually part of your project, but anyway) - i could use it almost exclusively if I could get the folders/labels. Maybe when you click Feeds, your GReader Folders drop down in an indented list under Feeds. Then that list dissapears when you go back to inbox or whatever. just a though.
But onto GReader, i'll paste my thoughts I've left on other blogs(like Scoble):
i would like better subscription management from the viewer page - without going to “manage subscriptions”. Mainly, i want to move subscriptions to different folders. The “Feed Settings” button at the top of each feed is worthless - it only has “unsubscribe”. It should allow you to put the feed in a different folder.
Also, the Subscription and feed discovery process needs improvement. 1) using the “Subscribe” bookmarklet works good, but you should be able to apply folders and/or tags at the time of subscription, instead of subscribing to a feed and GReader placing it in the top level, them going to Manage Subscriptions, filter to the one you just added, then change folders.
2) Sometimes the subscribe bookmarklet doesn’t work. So then if there’s a direct link to the RSS I “copy link location”, and it happens to have the prefix “feed:”. When I paste that address in the “Add subscriptions” smart-box, it says it can’t find the feed, because, ironically, the address starts with “feed:”.
Need search - come one, that’s an easy one. I want to be able to search 1) all posts that I have read in the past in GReader, and 2) use blogsearch to search all other blogs i’m not subscribed to.
Finally, better disinction between folders and tags. I “get” the idea of tags in general, but not this implementation. I’m still confused when I go to “edit tags” in an individual post, and I start typing and it autodetects the names of my folders. So then I type the name of an existing folder, but the feed doesn’t move…. it just sits there. Now i have it tagged, but it’s not organized any better - what good is that?
Last, the "Shared page" needs some work. There's a ton of wasted space in the right column, and like in Newsgator, wide images are simply cut off instead of allowing horizontal scrolling.
It's working really nicely so far (except I made the mistake of using Gmail's SMTP to import mail into my account. Duh! locked out for 24 hours :-)
So. The reader is truly excellent. A few glitches here or there (I have new items but my All Items view says no I don't) but really this is one of the best web apps I've used. Fast and easy. I even stopped using NetNewsWire for this (and hey, you know how fussy Mac users are about UIs and polish!)
Congratulations and thanks.
And in reply to the 2 guys above. In pre v2 versions of Firefox you can set the peferences to force tabs to open in the background. Seems to be missing in V2 at the moment.
Kudos on the GMail integration! That's been something I've been hoping for for a while now, and I'll probably use that as my primary method of reading.
It would be pretty sweet if you could integrate the calendar, but I know that isn't really your job. Thanks for all your work! I'm loving reader.
Nevertheless, I will use it for now because it has really more qualities than those two small problems!
I just downloaded greasemonkey to get this script so maybe I missed something. I clicked on the link and hit "install this user script". I got an error pop up.
error installing user script:
[exception... "component returned failure code: 0x80520012 (NS_ERROR_FILE_NOT_FOUND) [nsIChannel.open]" nsresult: "0x80520012 (NS_ERROR_FILE_NOT_FOUND)" location: "JS frame :: chrome://greasemonkey/content/utilis.js :: getContents :: line 167" data: no]
any thoughts?
(and I would love full reader/gmail integration.)
http://will.schupp.googlepages.com/Screenshot.png
The setup could be tweaked to be really freaking cool. For example, if you modify the inbox part so it doesn't force itself to take up space (creating the whitespace), that would help. Also, you could make the reader part smaller, and maybe even put a cut-down version of the calendar (agenda?).
Just a thought.
hehe, sorry about that post in the group if you didnt want that :p
Thank you,
Paul
saman - not that I can tell. hopefully that will come. i would like to see a place to select the folder right when you subscribe, or when you're viewing a feed I'd lke to be able to change folders.
Since installing Greasemonkey scripts is pretty much not allowed according to Gmail's legal terms...I've never really bothered installing any GM scripts afraid I might suddenly have my GMail account deleted, as I have read has happend before. Should I be worried or is there nothing to worry about??
One thing I would really like though, is if, in gmail, it organized the feeds like google reader does. I would really like to be able to see just a certain groups feeds at a certain time. When I want to see the headlines, I don't want to see the newest updates to youtube and the internet archive and vice versa. Thanks again for the extension and please keep that in mind when doing the integration for real if you do in the future. Thanks again.
Eric Wilson
I modified the script where it generates innerHTML to show a RSS Feed icon using IMG SRC=http://www.google.com/images/feed-icon.gif
I echo the many requests for folders/tags. Gmail should give Reader functionality its own expandable box, preferably above the Contacts and Labels boxes.
For now, I will continue to use reader.google.com because I don't like the way that your GM plugin currently serves up all my feeds and folders mixed together but you have certainly given me a taste of what might possible in the future.
My reaction to Reader 2.0.1 was that it's sheer usability was going to finally push RSS into the mainstream. Now, combined with Gmail, you are going to have a huge hit on your hands once the 2 are officially rolled together.
One last small point: given the fact that Google Reader blows all the other Readers out of the water, it's a damn shame that the Google Toolbar's Feed button, via preferences, supports all of the following:
* Google Personalized Homepage
* Firefox Live Bookmarks
* Bloglines
* My Yahoo
* NewsGator
* Pluck
... but not Google's own Reader!
Yes, yes, I know, I can use the Subscribe Bookmarklet but it would make it easier for people to adopt Reader if you could remove the necessity for that step by simply getting the Toolbar team to include Reader as an option.
Great ! One step towards integrating rss reader with the mail application :)
I am not sure if its a bug, Initially it showed "Feeds(100+)" in the sidebar. I marked all the posts as read, the count was still 100+, i had to reload gmail to update the count
Mihai is there any way that you can invoke a method that does the functionality of pressing the "u" key at the start? I've modified the script slightly by getting rid of the "gmail-embed=true&view=list" so that I can view my folders from within Gmail. At present I just use "u" straight away to hide the sidebar but it would be cool to have greasemonkey do it for me.
In pre v2 versions of Firefox you can set the peferences to force tabs to open in the background.
Where's that? I've never seen a "force new tabs to open in background" option in *any* version of Firefox. You might be talking about unchecking "Select new tabs opened from links," but that doesn't do anything to keep new tabs in the background when accessed via the kayboard command (it only affects opening the link with a control- or command-click).
Google seems to be overprotective of the way links will be opened when clicked on their services. For instance, there is an "onclick" javascript element in Gmail that wreaks havoc in Mac firefox. I can tell that it's supposed to keep links from opening up in the gmail window itself (but there's a 'target="_blank"' inserted in those links too), but it makes Mac Firefox open the link in *two separate* background tabs when I command-click. There's a "Gmail Single Window" Greasemonkey script that fixes it, but it seems needlessly meddlesome to me.
----
Error installing user script:
[Exception... "Component returned failure code:
0x80520015 (NS_ERROR_FILE_ACCESS_DENIED)
[nslFileOutputStream.init]" nsresult: "0x80520015
(NS_ERROR_FILE_ACCESS_DENIED)" location: "JS frame ::
chrome://greasemonkey/content/utils.js ::
getWriteStream :: line 184" data: no]
I needed it to view just a single label, so I hacked up the script a bit and posted it on my blog. Here's the link to anyone who is interested.
http://www.amountaintop.com/gmail-google-reader-greasemonkey-script-evolved
However, I'm afraid it reinforces the notion that we all want to read feeds like we read email. That's absolutely not the case.
I tried all the Outlook integrators before I discovered the OLD Google reader. I loved it immediately because my reading list is not anything like email. The reading experience is not anything like email.
Most emails I get are short. Most articles and blog posts are longer. The old Google Reader handled long posts beautifully. The new one mangles the screen horribly -- hiding all future article titles, so I can't scan ahead.
How about a greasemonkey script that puts the article list back on the left side where it belongs, separate from the reading pane? Now that would be useful.
(Yes, I know you kept the old Reader around -- I'm still using it. I just hope it doesn't go away until Google fixes the new interface.)
Followed instructions and installed into FF 1.5.0.7
Now when I log into Gmail, the browser crashes!
Uninstalling the GreaseMonkey extension does not help, browser still crashes.
How do I clean this stuff out completely and get my Gmail back?
Could the script be hacked to do that? Anybody got an idea?
Then I'd like Calendar and Groups also integrated into the Gmail interface. But I realise I will have to wait a bit....
I agree this is a tremendous script but I am not able to use that in Firefox rc2
althogh I would lov to have the expanded view and read only some labels....
It rocks otherwise!
Nice script !(again ;-)
Two hints (disguised as enhancment requests or vice versa)
- an option to include all folders from reader to gmail would be great (in stead of "feeds")
- an option to forward the selected reader preference regarding "pick your start page"
Cheers,
Peter Huesken
Could you alter your "Gmail Conversation Preview Bubbles" script to display the mail preview in the reader-list view format ?
Cheers,
Peter Huesken
A change of:
const READER_LIST_VIEW_URL =
"http://www.google.com/reader/view/user/-/state/com.google/reading-list?" +
"gmail-embed=true&view=list";
into:
const READER_LIST_VIEW_URL =
"http://www.google.com/reader/view/user/-/label/xxxx?" +
"gmail-embed=true&view=list";
(where "xxx" is your requested folder-name)
...does the trick, but a nice option to change this in gmail preferences must be possible...
Cheers,
Peter
Does anyone have a suggestion for this.
Thanks, Tom
One little gripe that you might fix or not.
I use gmail through https, so all my communication with them is encrypted.
After I click on the newly added feeds label (thanks to you) it takes me out of https, I guess this is probably since GReader wasn't built to work over https (except for the login part). I wouldn't mind it much, except the fact that if I go back to my inbox, I'm now communicating over http and not https.
Would be cool if you could fix this. Still cool if you don't.
Thanks,
Rotem.
Just change
feedsNode.innerHTML =
'Feeds ' +
'';
to
feedsNode.innerHTML =
'Feeds ' +
' '+
'';
feedsNode.innerHTML =
'Feeds ' +
'<span id="reader-unread-count"></span> '+
'<img src="http://www.google.com/reader/ui/favicon.ico">';
thanks
New script features a sidebar tree menu to conveniently browse feeds and notifications for newly arrived entries. Script can be found @ http://chandiramani.info/software/gmail-reader/
-Pradeep
John
only a couple of consideration to make it even better
- allow "midlle click" over Feeds tabs to open the reader in a new firefox tab
- hide the top header of hte reader in the view (to avoid doble "help, setting, ...", one from reader, another from gmail)
anyhow, congratullation for the extension
Thanks for the script. Love it.
i found that making sure that both gmail and google reader were switched to "secure" fixed the problem. if yo use the customizegoogle extension, you can easily achieve this. i personally use a greasemonkey script that forces the secure connection.
the topbar and search bar will still show; i use the "google reader minimalistic" script to remove them. looks great in gmail (as long as you dont mind the search bar being hidden)
Im running ubunutu. but im not sure thats a problem...
- Steve
in the past few days, i've noticed that the script i use to force a secure connection isn't allowing me to connect to google reader either.
Luckily, disabling the script that forced that secure connection seemed to fix that problem, and it didn't mess up how google reader looked in gmail, as it did before.
I think that the fix i posted before is still the right idea, but now the important thing is to make sure that both gmail and google reader use the same type of connection (either both are secured, or both are unsecured). If you mix and match, I think that's going to cause problems.
I'd recommend going to be gmail and google reader, in separate tabs (or windows, whatever you use), and make sure they are both using the same type of connection (secured or unsecured).
im not sure how to fix this...
Doug
On one of the installations, the link disappeared about a week later than on the other three. Perhaps it has something to do with a Firefox update?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/dss902/untitled.jpg
The script I updated was based off this version and had some other modifications but accomplishes the same thing.
http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=13467&ctx=sibling
Did someone have a new script or workaround to fix this problem?
Can the script be updated as it looks perfect? I currently load Google Reader in Chrome in the morning and my email in Firefox which is frustrating.
Daniel
Post a Comment